Feedback & bugs

force trim really weak holding control stick position. AB6 1.4beta

14 replies 3052 views started Jul 28
#1

Hi I dont know if this is a hardware issue I have the AB6. Running 1.4 beta The force trim is really weak and if I release the button the B206 the aerodinamic centering forces will still make the yoke to pitch up, even when flying slow

using the starter B206 but also happens with the generic force trim preset

To serve as analogy it feels like the force trim is being held by a rubber band rather than powerful industrial magnets. I dont think this is how force trim is supposed to work. I cant remember well because I am having too much fun with ffb-bridge but im sure that with the usual force trim presets in the moza software you get a very solid lock.

Of course first time i tried was to raise the force trim hold slider but the change was quite insignificant.

Thanks again for developing such an amazing software.

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#2

Have been working on this and some other things, new beta out soon with some fixes.

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#4

Absolutely loving this app and I finally rationalized picking up a Moza AB6 yesterday just to try this! Really amazing work.

However, in the Taog HH-65 in MSFS 2024, I'm having same issue as OP, weaker force trim holding force than I would expect (I haven't even tried the Moza Cockpit FFB yet, so can't compare to that). I downloaded 1.4.1-beta2 and it didn't seem to make any difference in the force trim holding force; however, it did have the negative effect of seeming to make the cyclic axes negatively stable, i.e. as you move closer to the edges of their travel, the stick pulls on its own in that direction. I checked my axis polarity and that seems fine. Any idea what could be going wrong?

For reference I'm using the 'classic force trim' generic profile, binding TR both in FFB-Bridge and in MSFS. Behavior seemed normal before trying the beta with these settings.

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#5

Absolutely loving this app and I finally rationalized picking up a Moza AB6 yesterday just to try this! Really amazing work.

However, in the Taog HH-65 in MSFS 2024, I'm having same issue as OP, weaker force trim holding force than I would expect (I haven't even tried the Moza Cockpit FFB yet, so can't compare to that). I downloaded 1.4.1-beta2 and it didn't seem to make any difference in the force trim holding force; however, it did have the negative effect of seeming to make the cyclic axes negatively stable, i.e. as you move closer to the edges of their travel, the stick pulls on its own in that direction. I checked my axis polarity and that seems fine. Any idea what could be going wrong?

For reference I'm using the 'classic force trim' generic profile, binding TR both in FFB-Bridge and in MSFS. Behavior seemed normal before trying the beta with these settings.

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#6

This bug with the AB6 is annoying me. I don't have one to test yet, and I can't reproduce on my AB9!

So, to be clear - in the current release version 1.4, the force trim is weak, but cyclic axes are correct. But in 1.4.1, force trim remains weak AND you have this negative cyclic issue?

Also, congratulations on the AB6 purchase.. I hear it's a great stick.. maybe I should have saved money and bought that first to test :) I kinda assumed if I made the AB9 work, the AB6 would follow. And it mostly does, but there are clearly some differences.

Anyway, I shall keep working on this, and I am getting my own AB6 soon as well (couple weeks), so worst case, you may need to wait a bit till this is definitively done. That's worst case, might be fixed before that.

Thanks for the feedback, and could you also please submit a support bundle? That will be very helpful.

https://ffb-bridge.com/docs/support-bundles

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#7

With some more testing I was noticed the following:

  • With 1.4.0, at full lateral cyclic deflection, the Roll load on the Dashboard peaked at about 11%. With 1.4.1-beta2, it would shoot up to ~53%.
  • In the beta, if I then selected Ínvert pitch centering' and ínvert roll centering' the force would drop to ~26% and also have the expected behavior of stick force required (while holding TR) pretty much equal across the full lateral cyclic travel, compared to my original observation of the stick seeming to pull itself as the extremes were approached (which I now realize was the pitch and roll centering working differently than it had in 1.4.0 - seemingly opposite).
  • But yes, in both cases, the force with which the stick is held after TR release seems quite low in both 1.4.0 and 1.4.1-beta2, even with Master Gain and Force trim hold at 100. For example I can just hold the tip of the stick lightly with my fingers and still easily move the stick, with resultant wobbling of the helicopter. The force is definitely there, just way weaker than seems would be ideal.

Also just submitted the support bundle. Thanks!

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#8

Thanks a ton! Great feedback. I’ll look in to this today.

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#11

Awesome, thank you, looking forward to giving it a try tonight!

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#12

Tried out beta34 tonight - no real problems, but also no noticeable change from beta8, at least for me, in the HH-65A on my AB6. The autopilot follow function doesn't seem to work on my AB6, or at least, it doesn't actually move the stick when following AP commands. Similarly, trimming doesn't walk the controls either - however, with the big caveat that I'm not using 4-way beep trim within FFB-Bridge itself, but rather the HH-65's native controls within MSFS. I'm still not entirely clear on how assigning controls within FFB-B may conflict with simultaneously assigning controls in MSFS.

Lastly, I don't see any difference in 'stick holding' force after releasing TR (which I have bound both in MSFS and FFB-B, to the same button). It still holds it in place, but I can easily wobble the stick with minimal force, which also induces minor roll and pitch oscillations. I now know, from playing around with the DCS F-16 profile within Moza Cockpit last weekend, that the AB6 does definitely have the power to very firmly hold the stick in place though.

So, at least for me, not a step backwards, but the new functions since b8 don't seem to work on my AB6.

One other thing that I think is very important: it seems that the profile set in Moza Cockpit 'sticks' even when MC isn't open. I had switched to a DCS profile last weekend in MC, and when I got back into MSFS tonight with FFB-B, I was having all kinds of crazy uncontrollable movement. Eventually I tracked it down to the MC profile; I had to manually set it back to the default profile, and after that things returned to normal.

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#13
In reply to GregP's post
Similarly, trimming doesn't walk the controls either - however, with the big caveat that I'm not using 4-way beep trim within FFB-Bridge itself, but rather the HH-65's native controls within MSFS. I'm still not entirely clear on how assigning controls within FFB-B may conflict with simultaneously assigning controls in MSFS.
— GregP

Yeah, FFB-Bridge needs the control bound, it has no idea that the sim is doing it. There should be no conflict with the sim - let me know if you see anything.

Regarding the rest of your comment. I think the AB6 code has a bug. I'm trying a few things to test that out without the stick. And I'm getting an AB6 soon, so that will make fixing this easy.

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#14
In reply to GregP's post

Try AP Follow in Beta 37, please. Does it work?

You should increase the AP Follow Authority and Strength to 100% first in tuning. Then give it a shot.

Let me know if this is better.

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#15

Thanks! My tests with the HH-65 in FS24 with beta37 found the following:

  • AP following, even with Follow Authority and Strength both set to 100%, still doesn't move the stick.
  • If I assign hat buttons to 4-way beep trim within FFB-Bridge, it does indeed move the stick. However, that seems to then mess up the trimmed center: whenever I then later press TR to move the stick, when I release TR, the trimmed position jumps to the extreme end of the main axis that I just moved in, then violently returns to where it should be. Kind of hard to describe, but it's very destabilizing and makes the flight nearly uncontrollable, and doesn't fix itself until I end the flight and start over.
  • If I assign hat buttons to 4-way beep trim within FS24 but not FFB-Bridge, trims works fine, no destabilizing motion, but obviously doesn't move the physical stick.
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